Iain MacPhail's response on the George Street experiment will indeed have come as something of a surprise and relief to many of us, writes local resident Caroline Roussot.
It is great news that the marquees are to go (and hopefully soon).
Personally, however, I am scarcely more in favour of patio heaters attached to giant umbrellas than I am of marquees and decking. Are we in this city concerned about the planet (all the hot air about recycling, for example) or do we think that heating thin air and strips of canvas is a responsible use of resources?
I continue to feel that the climate in Edinburgh, for the majority of days in the year, is simply not conducive to the languid lingerings the Council is planning for us. I wish that CEC, and Essential Edinburgh, could show some sign of loving the New Town for what it is rather than spending their time devising strategies for it which would be better suited to a city 2,000 miles or so south of here or to a covered shopping centre.
Who can blame George Street traders, at long last emerging from six years of tram-related disruption to the city centre, for wanting to attract people back to their businesses? But I struggle to believe that a bunch of umbrellas on a windswept pedestrianised runway will do much for them.
Will our Council retain forever the mind-set that there is no problem that can't be sorted out with a bit more shopping?
We are told that George Street needs more 'buzz' injected if it is to survive the opening of the St James Quarter. But of course, these new schemes poach customers away from existing areas, and create at least as many problems as they solve. I think there is already an over-supply of luxury shopping in Edinburgh, even before the St James Quarter complex comes on line. Surely, at some point the Council must draw a line and stop approving new retail schemes?
It would have been interesting to read Mr MacPhail on the subject of St Andrew Square. Does he think that the use of civic space here shows a good balance between public and commercial interests?
His opinion would give us all a valuable pointer!
Got a view? Tell us at spurtle@hotmail.co.uk and @theSpurtle and Facebook
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See also Letters (1.1.15).
@theSpurtle, @TheLHTD how much profit the St Andrew's Square cash cow brings into @Edinburgh_CC might be a relevant consideration
New Town Flâneur @NewTownFlaneur
@theSpurtle Your correspondent should be informed that I have perfected the art of lingering languidly in all weather conditions.
@theSpurtle Damn, misread the first time. Thought you said future is languid lingerie. But then Edinburgh is fur coat and no knickers I hear
New Town Flâneur @NewTownFlaneur
@theSpurtle Perhaps they should just install a giant, technicolor cash cow in St Andrew Square for the delectation of local & tourist alike.
@theSpurtle Nobody remember when George St. was a business & residential area? B4 council drove them out & decided it should be bars & shops
@EllaTasm @theSpurtle @Edinburgh_CC I agree but the loss of the public space is still irksome nonetheless.
@NewTownFlaneur @theSpurtle Don't give them any ideas.
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3.1.15
Razzo Coffee @Razzo_Coffee@EllaTasm @theSpurtle @TheLHTD the council doesn't generate any direct income from the activities in the square?
@TheLHTD yes. but seemingly St Andrews Sq is not actually 'public space'. Ask @andwightman. @theSpurtle @EllaTasm @Edinburgh_CC
@TheLHTD However. It does seem to me these festival uses ought to be subject to planning permission. Currently they are not. @theSpurtle
@CityCycling @TheLHTD @theSpurtle they do have planning permission https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/simpleSearchResults.do;jsessionid=84892AF4E3B80E12BF45830EEDC3C44A?action=firstPage …
The LHTD @TheLHTD@CityCycling @theSpurtle @EllaTasm @Edinburgh_CC well the loss of a nice square which had a bit of grass. It used to be nice!
@CityCycling @theSpurtle everything's bigger, brighter, louder and with merchandise stands! Where will they expand to next year?
Lizzie Rynne @CityCycling@TheLHTD yes. but seemingly St Andrews Sq is not actually 'public space'. Ask @andywightman . @theSpurtle @EllaTasm @Edinburgh_CC
Lizzie Rynne @CityCycling@TheLHTD there is a complicated lease thing in place with the BID getting a deal from @Edinburgh_CC @andywightman @theSpurtle @EllaTasm
Lizzie Rynne @CityCycling@TheLHTD @theSpurtle it really does seem to me things have gone too far. The skyflyer thing totally destroys the skyline.
Lynn Henni @LynnHenni 1 minute ago@CityCycling @theSpurtle @TheLHTD there my taste and cultural appreciation bows to my love of heights and speed.
Lizzie Rynne @CityCycling@TheLHTD @theSpurtle and the whole of the toon centre is like a war zone with barriers andhoardings everywhere. It is REALLY horrible.
Ally Tibbitt @allytibbitt@Razzo_Coffee @EllaTasm @theSpurtle @TheLHTD Do @EssentialEdin make money on events in St Andrew Sq though?
Ally Tibbitt @allytibbitt@Razzo_Coffee @EllaTasm @theSpurtle @TheLHTD Do @EssentialEdin make money on events in St Andrew Sq though?
@aotns @theSpurtle @TheLHTD think the arg would be that these raiders bring in loads of visitors. Wd rather Edi provided for its residents.
@CityCycling @TheLHTD @theSpurtle they do have planning permission https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/simpleSearchResults.do;jsessionid=84892AF4E3B80E12BF45830EEDC3C44A?action=firstPage …Lizzie Rynne @CityCycling
@papawasarodeo keen to check this out but the link goes to an error page. @planningedin please can you sort this out @TheLHTD @theSpurtle
euan leitch @papawasarodeo@CityCycling @TheLHTD @theSpurtle all of it 14/03915/FUL
CATHEL @cathelkerr@theSpurtle Ba Humbug ! let's return to St Andrews Square being locked to the public 24/7 and tumbleweed rolling down George Street #moan
@theSpurtle not just st andrews square, but all the stuff going on in Princes Street Gardens, and all the people management for NY celebs.
Broughton Spurtle @theSpurtle.@AndrewDBurns Whose city is it anyway? George St/StASq same problem. http://www.broughtonspurtle.org.uk/news/languid-lingerings-and-more-shopping-are-not-answer … FYI @AndrewDBurns
Alexander Frei @Protonmale@theSpurtle You need a hashtag for this discussion #civicscene
@theSpurtle @AndrewDBurns Steve Cardownie says it raises Edinburgh residents moral so it's worth it. £200k subsidy per week last year?
pamela dobbie @stoneygran@theSpurtle couldn't agree more with this. George St looked fine a few years ago...clear the clutter and restore the grandeur!
NewTownCleanStreets @NTCleanStreets@fountainbridge Which residents? Brings my blood pressure to the boil! @theSpurtle @AndrewDBurns
Iain MacPhail @LeithCitizen@theSpurtle worth remembering GeoSt is undergoing a trial plus research, design & debate (seeking all participants' views) StAndrewSq not so
NewTownCleanStreets @NTCleanStreets
@fountainbridge Winter Fest as thank you to residents - true 20 years ago - but now pure cash cow @theSpurtle @AndrewDBurns
@theSpurtle On reflection the hashtag should be Xanadu, as in film Citizen Kane - the palatial estate with 'no trespassing' notice at gate.
Edinburgh Reporter @EdinReporter@theSpurtle @jamesjopling @edinburgh So are you a big fearty who wouldn't go on the Star Flyer then....??
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4.1.15
Athens of the North @aotns@CityCycling @theSpurtle @TheLHTD. Exactly what about small local startups that can flourish into full time business for the city.
@CityCycling @theSpurtle @TheLHTD what about farmers market with lots of great local produce you can buy for Christmas.
@CityCycling @theSpurtle @TheLHTD no send the money down south to someone who has already taken to large a slice of the Edinburgh festival.
@CityCycling @theSpurtle @TheLHTD do we really need chairoplanes. Pretty tacky to put the shows on, we have more to offer. Get @CreativeEdin
Razzo Coffee @Razzo_Coffee@allytibbitt @EllaTasm @theSpurtle @TheLHTD @EssentialEdin I'd guess the underbelly of the cash cow is the fattest
James Jopling @jamesjopling@EdinReporter @theSpurtle @edinburgh absolutely after doing it last year when bits fell off it...
Broughton Spurtle @theSpurtleEdinburgh, Scotland@LeithCitizen True. But disgust at current state of StASq shows locals need it included in 'civic discussion on a new, dynamic city centre'.
Email from Andrew Brough: Totally agree with you … the closing of half of George Street to marquees that are already empty during the winter is awful. The street looks a mess and I haven’t seen them used much outside of the Festival or since the winter kicked in. Also St Andrew Sq is a mess. The city seem to think that they can overcome problems by allowing more shopping and the overcommercialism of the city centre. More booze, more festivals will not cut it. I hate to say it but as much as I love being able to walk through the Square at this time of year, it's a mess. When will the Council come up with better ideas other than more shopping, please?
James Jopling @jamesjopling@EdinReporter @theSpurtle @edinburgh absolutely after doing it last year when bits fell off it...
Lynne McNicoll @itsgood2give@jamesjopling @EdinReporter @theSpurtle @edinburgh not enough money in Edinburgh to get me onto that thing. #proudtobeafearty
@theSpurtle How about alternating events each year between St Andrew’s Square and Charlotte Square? See how them Westenders like it.
Lizzie Rynne @CityCycling@TheLHTD @theSpurtle howabout alternating between big party like now and traditional get together like 20 years ago.
@papawasarodeo do they need new planning permission each year? @TheLHTD @theSpurtle
euan leitch @papawasarodeo@CityCycling @TheLHTD @theSpurtle yes.
Lizzie Rynne @CityCycling@papawasarodeo @TheLHTD @theSpurtle well at least that gives some opportunity to lobby for restraint on visual impact and amenity grounds.
Fay Young @fay_young@theSpurtle not widely known but St Andrew Sq is #Edinburgh's poetry garden, since Aug 2008. Quietly blooming http://www.fayyoung.org/roses-are-red-and-dogwood-is-too/ …
@CityCycling @TheLHTD @theSpurtle none of the amenity groups or comm councils object... maybe they accept their temporary public popularity.
Fay Young @fay_young@theSpurtle @TheLHTD when Alex Salmond opened St Andrew Sq there was talk of Charlotte Sq opening all year. http://www.fayyoung.org/open-and-shut
@CityCycling @TheLHTD @theSpurtle will be interesting to find out the proportion of EH postcodes that attended.
@papawasarodeo maybe. Or maybe they just were not aware of the application. @TheLHTD @theSpurtle
Lizzie Rynne @CityCycling@papawasarodeo @TheLHTD @theSpurtle well of the 75k at the new year bash, seemingly 65% were from outside Scotland.
@CityCycling @TheLHTD @theSpurtle oh, they're aware every year.
euan leitch @papawasarodeo@CityCycling @TheLHTD @theSpurtle that's quite a lot of Edinburghers enjoying something that I don't.
@papawasarodeo @TheLHTD @theSpurtle even if all the other 35% were EH postcodes thats a small proportion of the total EH population.
euan leitch @papawasarodeo@CityCycling @TheLHTD @theSpurtle 26k burghers will speak more to councillors than a handful of highminded twitterati. #downwithdemocracy
@papawasarodeo @TheLHTD @theSpurtle its not 26k edinbughers, its 26k folks from across Scotland.
New Town Flâneur @NewTownFlaneur@TheLHTD @theSpurtle It would be a dead-end world, with East End killjoys and West End churls, as the Pet Shop Boys predicted.
euan leitch @papawasarodeo@CityCycling @TheLHTD @theSpurtle possibly even more persuasive to politicians then.
Lizzie Rynne @CityCycling@papawasarodeo @TheLHTD @theSpurtle yes when their priority is milking visitors for thier cash. Id like to see residents comfort considered
Lizzie Rynne @CityCycling@papawasarodeo @TheLHTD @theSpurtle really Id just like to see a proper public debate about it.
euan leitch @papawasarodeo@CityCycling @TheLHTD @theSpurtle city is full of comfortable non monetised options outside the neon nexus.
Broughton Spurtle @theSpurtle@papawasarodeo @CityCycling @TheLHTD Yes, but they're not in a World Heritage Site and probably won't have public loos soon. @EdinburghWH
Jeff Sanders @Jeffrsanders 1h1 hour ago@theSpurtle nice to see St Andrew's Sq in use! I've enjoyed the art works, film screenings etc. Also - some great acts in the spiegeltent
Barney Dellar @branaby 13m13 minutes ago@theSpurtle I'm not sure from that what Caroline would like to see instead...
Broughton Spurtle @theSpurtle nowEdinburgh, Scotland.@NTBCC Many criticisms of St Andrew Sq over-use repeated at your 2014 meetings. Did NTBCC object to latest Christmas funfair application?
Broughton Spurtle @theSpurtle Edinburgh, ScotlandWhat are your positions on St Andrew Square year-round tented city/funfair @EdinburghWH @thecockburn ? http://www.broughtonspurtle.org.uk/news/languid-lingerings-and-more-shopping-are-not-answer …
Alison Hunter @AlisonH8936 minutes ago@theSpurtle @EdinburghWH @thecockburn No!!!!
@Jeffrsanders @theSpurtle I agree it has done some good but EdXmas a step too far considering it has Princes St. A fine balance needed.
NewTownCleanStreets @NTCleanStreets@papawasarodeo Do you mean that New Town should no longer be considered suitable for residential uses? @CityCycling @TheLHTD @theSpurtle
euan leitch @papawasarodeo@NTCleanStreets @CityCycling @TheLHTD @theSpurtle all of it?
Joan Ballantyne @dunedinhen@theSpurtle @EdinburghWH @thecockburn should not be allowed! I would rather see it turned back into private hands than see it trashed!!
Paul Burgess @pauledinburgh@theSpurtle @NTBCC it's lovely since it opened to the public but there are far too many events held and there is hardly any time to enjoy it
Broughton Spurtle @theSpurtle 28m28 minutes agoEdinburgh, Scotland@fay_young Turning & turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Broughton Spurtle @theSpurtle Edinburgh, Scotland
@fay_young Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.
Broughton Spurtle @theSpurtle Edinburgh, Scotland
@fay_young Is Essential Edinburgh a rough beast?
Fay Young @fay_young@theSpurtle look for Poetry Tree when Festive tents fold http://www.scotsman.com/news/poetry-tree-offers-chance-to-leaf-a-message-for-japan-1-1668438 … Magnolia gifted by @TheBotanics pic.twitter.com/qK9r8hBuxC
Fay Young @fay_young54 minutes ago
@theSpurtle good practical support for Poetry Garden from Essential Edinburgh as long as poetic events don't clash with prosaic others.
@theSpurtle some good points made re barriers and impact on year round businesses. Debate needs to move to suggestions - status quo not on.
Lynn Henni @LynnHenni@theSpurtle also, good if council generated income for city coffers in austere times. Licence fees could mitigate agin social service cuts
NewTownCleanStreets @NTCleanStreets
@LynnHenni Agreed. Lunacy is that funds flow is in opposite direction. See @theSpurtle Dec print issue http://www.broughtonspurtle.org.uk/sites/broughtonspurtle.org.uk/files/Spurtle%20236%20Final%20High%20Res.pdf …
Jeff Sanders @Jeffrsanders@TheLHTD @theSpurtle do you feel the balance is right for the rest of the year? What would be your alternative use over Christmas?
The LHTD @TheLHTD@Jeffrsanders @theSpurtle My feeling is no. Does it need a use over Xmas?
The LHTD @TheLHTD@Jeffrsanders @theSpurtle If it does then please not another ice rink and no more G4S security.
Jeff Sanders @Jeffrsanders@TheLHTD @theSpurtle I've enjoyed it being used through the year & found range interesting - eg the showcasing of stone masonry skills
Jeff Sanders @Jeffrsanders@TheLHTD @theSpurtle as to use over Xmas - I found it a bit dismal when simply locked. Keen to hear other ideas for use too though!
Broughton Spurtle @theSpurtle@Jeffrsanders Concerned by: frequency; visual impact; loss (esp. in spring/summer) of pleasant space in which to sit, be quiet, NOT spend.
Jeff Sanders @Jeffrsanders@theSpurtle would be interesting to review uses of the Square over the year (may have already been done!) as starting point for discussions
Jeff Sanders @Jeffrsanders@theSpurtle tho' only relatively recently opened & projects such as field of light or Brit from the air exhibition were not about spending
Broughton Spurtle @theSpurtle@Jeffrsanders Estimated 1+ per month by September 2014; see snarling at http://goo.gl/lpTDMx Awkward EE calendar at http://goo.gl/O9hRoJ
New Town Flâneur @NewTownFlaneur
@theSpurtle We just need a New Town square where I & my slithy tove acquaintances can gyre & gimble in non-commercialised wabe all yr round.
Hannah Ross @hannahkross 1h1 hour ago@NewTownFlaneur @theSpurtle I vote for Drummond place gardens.
euan leitch @papawasarodeo@NewTownFlaneur @theSpurtle spent the afternoon consuming free culture and entertainment (Sandy Stoddart is such a hoot) in the Noo Toon.
Paul @fountainbridge@theSpurtle @EdinburghWH @thecockburn The space is going to look amazingly bad next month when all junk removed. pic.twitter.com/tx0Gji6YC1
pamela dobbie @stoneygran
Much as I enjoy #Edinburgh en fête...I'm really rather looking forward to seeing the green grass of St Andrew's Square again! @theSpurtle
pamela dobbie @stoneygran1 hour ago@CityCycling @theSpurtle and to sit in the gardens and inhale...fresh air...as opposed to bratwurst etc...#bahumbug
Broughton Spurtle @theSpurtle
@stoneygran Grass half-full.
Fay Young @fay_young@theSpurtle see Ron Butlin's Poem for St Andrew Square, in our city "of possibilities and prohibitions" pic.twitter.com/fsVhvRZou9
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5.1.15
@allytibbitt @theSpurtle All funds raised from hiring the space go towards upkeep of the garden, which allows it to be kept open to public.
Ally Tibbitt @allytibbitt.@EssentialEdin Yr annual report says you expect £69k in from square but plan to spend £79k. Why do you make a loss? @theSpurtle
Essential Edinburgh @EssentialEdin
@allytibbitt @theSpurtle Yes through BID businesses we fund the shortfall to enhance area & keep garden open - We're non-profit organisation
NewTownCleanStreets @NTCleanStreetsHow ironic!Whole thing screams tacky cashcow, but in fact 'not-for-profit' of @EssentialEdin or Council, for profit ofUnderbelly @theSpurtle
Lizzie Rynne @CityCycling@EssentialEdin do you mean then that it costs £79k to upkeep the square for a year? @theSpurtle @allytibbitt
Beth @lattegirl10@theSpurtle @EdinburghWH @thecockburn Let grass grow back/quiet green oasis/no events EVER/this is not Disneyland!
Cockburn Association favorited some Tweets you were mentioned in: @theSpurtle @EdinburghWH @thecockburn Let grass grow back/quiet green oasis/no events EVER/this is not Disneyland!- Jan 4: @theSpurtle @EdinburghWH @thecockburn should not be allowed! I would rather see it turned back into private hands than see it trashed!!
- Jan 4: @theSpurtle @EdinburghWH @thecockburn No!!!!
- Jan 4: @theSpurtle @EdinburghWH @thecockburn The space is going to look amazingly bad next month when all junk removed. pic.twitter.com/tx0Gji6YC1
St Andrew Square - revised traffic layout in place for @Edxmas de-rig: south side of Square closed. #edintravel pic.twitter.com/UkRRazW0FA
@edintravel more @Edxmas cash cow disruption. @theSpurtle
Broughton Spurtle @theSpurtle Edinburgh, Scotland. @EssentialEdin How much of £79k is: (a) enhancement (b) maintenance (c) rent/other? Are detailed figures available to public? @allytibbitt
In yesterday's Twitter correspondence, @fay_young recommended former Edinburgh Makar Ron Butlin's poem read at the opening in 2008 of a Poetry Garden within St Andrew Square. We've now tracked it down, and reproduce it below with the permission of the author and his understanding of the context here. The work appears in Butlin's collection of poems about the capital The Magicians of Edinburgh, published by Polygon and now in its 6th edition.
New Town Flâneur @NewTownFlaneur
@papawasarodeo @theSpurtle Can we blame Butlin for St Andrew Square's holiday camp-like appearance?
Broughton Spurtle @theSpurtle Edinburgh, Scotland@NewTownFlaneur @papawasarodeo All things considered, no.
euan leitch @papawasarodeo@theSpurtle fascinating that he mistook St Andrew Square for a public garden. #poeticlicence
@theSpurtle while Edinburgh's Hogmanay is some misanthropic tweeters' hell it appears to be heaven to others https://twitter.com/Fanyibo7/status/552028027648245760 …